Batch: 2018
Branch: CS + Eco
CGPA: 8.41
Q. Could you give us a brief introduction of yourself and what you're working on currently?
A. I'm Jui Pradhan, and I have finished the fourth year of my dual degree in MSc Economics and B.E. Computer Science. I am not really working on a personal project as such, but I'm doing my PS-2 at Apple right now.
Q. How did you get into computational science? What made you make that decision? How does one make a decision about which field they'd like to pursue?
A. I'm not exactly working on computational sciences. Computer science has many different aspects to it, and I wanted to figure out which one I would personally like the most. I tried a lot of different projects, and I got a lot of exposure through different internships. I'm not very sorted at the moment, truthfully. I enjoy machine learning and AI research, so I think I'll probably go ahead with that. Coming to the second part of the question, I think the only way to have a firm opinion on it is to get a bit of exposure to the subject or do projects or internships on it. Some way or another, you need to experience how it feels like to work in the field.
Q. Was your dual degree, which is computer science, the thing that made you get into this particular field or did you explore the other options like non-tech or finance or did you already know that this is what you wanted to do?
A. Right from the beginning, I knew I wanted to do computer science, but around my second year, I was slightly confused if I would like finance as well. I was in the Wall Street club, so I saw quite a bit of case studies and how things work in consulting. I did a few courses like NVC about working in the startup space, but I think it did not really kick in as much as ML research did, so I decided not to go ahead with that. As I mentioned before, different people have different experiences, and some people may or may not like it, so it's very individualistic.
Q. How did you obtain your current internship, which is at Apple, as you mentioned a while ago?
A. Yes, that was through my PS-2. The entire process included applying through a Google Form, and then we had two rounds of interviews from which they picked up students.
Q. How did you obtain your current internship as a developer at Microsoft? Could you tell us about how you aced the interview?
A. It was an open-source fest which included an application through the Microsoft portal. We had to contribute to the organization: Vowpal Wabbit and make a proposal. The process of obtaining that internship was very similar to GSoC. The only difference was that they did not expect us to contribute extensively before we were selected. They wanted to check if we could get around the problem statement, find things out on our own and make a consolidated proposal. In the end, I ended up with a proposal that was 25 pages long. There was a resume shortlisting round, and soon after that, they had a screening test. In the test, we were given a task to complete before the deadline and submit it.
Q. In general, how does one usually apply and look out for internships?
A. I'll address this question in two parts. One is if you’re a girl, there are diversity hiring programs. In my case, I did not end up applying to any diversity hiring programs because I was lucky enough to get opportunities otherwise, too.
I had an Adobe summer internship this year for which I ended up getting an interview because I applied to the Women in Tech scholarship program. I had interviews for Women in Tech, but I did not get the scholarship. However, as they still had my data and resume, even after the scholarship process ended, one of the HR got in touch with me and asked whether I would be interested in pursuing a summer internship. I had to separately interview for the summer internship and I got the opportunity to interview off-campus with Adobe because they had my data and resume. So if you are a girl, you can apply to such programs- you might not get the scholarship or prize money, but you will still end up getting something out of it.
The other way, in general, is that you can look for opportunities on LinkedIn. People keep posting about open positions, and you can get in touch with them. Another way to use LinkedIn is writing up a standard message with your resume attached and sending it to your LinkedIn connections. If they have open positions, they will either tell you to apply on the portal, or they will schedule interviews for you which works out as well.
Make sure you are aware of whom you are sending the message to, please don't spam people. For example, if you want a research internship then send out messages to full-time researchers in that company. I was able to get interviews for my research internship (off-campus corporate thesis) at Microsoft Research by messaging principal researchers at the Lab. I also had a chance to interview with Intel, US labs because I messaged a researcher on LinkedIn.
Q. We noticed that your LinkedIn page had over 3000 followers; how does one create an established LinkedIn page such as yours? How to make the most out of LinkedIn?
A. Many people keep posting stuff on LinkedIn to have a large number of followers. However, I decided not to post things that weren’t related to me. I think, keeping your LinkedIn profile updated- a professional looking profile picture (not a selfie) and filling in details about your work experience, just like you would in your resume really helps a lot to drive traffic to your profile. I kept sending connection requests to people who are full-time employees or researchers at the companies I would like to work with. I did that almost every single week. I targeted a few companies, for example, say Adobe or Google; I searched Adobe or Google, and there was a list of people that would appear. You could keep sending connection requests with a small note, and this is really helpful when you apply for off-campus opportunities. When I was applying to Microsoft research for a thesis opportunity, which I will be pursuing in my next semester- I could see that I could directly message "Principal researchers" just because they were my connections.
Q. Approaching the topic of GSoC, when did you apply for GSoC? Did you always know that this was something you wanted to participate in? What was the application process like?
A. Yes, I always knew I wanted to do that. In my first year, I attended a GSoC preparation talk organized by my seniors. Since it seemed very difficult, I did not apply in my first year, but ended up applying in my second year. I did GSoC at the same time as I had my PS1, which I found quite manageable. I feel it's best to utilize the PS1 summer by contributing to open source or doing some competitive coding, as for most people PS1 is a complete waste of time.
Coming to how to apply to GSoC, I think it has a very standard way to go about it - you go through the list of organizations that are listed, then you choose one organization which suits your tech stack, then go ahead and make contributions; don't forget to get involved in the community discussions. That goes on for about three months. Generally, people start in December by making contributions to the projects they have selected, but I was not very sure if I should go ahead with the application, so I started around February, which was quite late. I figured that even if the proposal process is over, I should still keep contributing till the selected students list is announced. In the end, everything adds up, so if you just stop contributing after the proposal deadline is over, then you still lose out on a chance to show that you are interested in the project. In short- even if you're starting late, just make sure that you keep contributing till you are officially selected for GSoC.
Q. What are your plans after this internship ends? Do you know which university you want to apply to, or any specific company that you're targeting? When should someone ideally opt to do higher studies?
A. That's a very good question. I actually was very confused if I should go ahead with MS applications or whether I should take up a corporate job. And I would say that I'm still confused about that as of now. I got placed at Google, and I think that I'll go ahead with Google for around two years and then figure out what I really want to do. I think at this point there are two options: One is that you take up a job, you grow in the job, and then you take a team switch in the team that you want to work in, like for my case, it's ML. So, I might take an SDE ML role/research based role one or two years down the line. I'll either do an MBA or PhD later.
Coming to the last part of the question, unless one has specific interests, going for higher studies makes sense only when they are having a career block. i.e. Pursue another degree only if 1) you want to explore or are looking for a switch to a particular area, 2) if the degree is going to help you climb the corporate ladder/help you land a job you wouldn't get with your current degree.
I've been talking to higher-ups at Apple and have found that when you talk to someone who has been into the tech space for around 12-15 years, he/she will have a lot of clarity. If you're very confused, I would suggest that you talk to such people and ask them specific questions like: Is xyz degree necessary to land me xyz job, can work experience cover-up for not having this degree, what is the opportunity cost of pursuing this degree (in terms of the salary you are giving up for the number of years you study and of course your tuition fees)
It’s not that taking the traditional way will always be right, you can do unconventional things. However, just make sure you have talked to enough people to get a clear understanding of how things work in real life.
Q. Are you planning on entering the corporate realm, or would you be going into research?
A. You can do research while still working at a company.
I wanted to take up a job for two years and see if there is a chance of working in teams that are in the research area of my interest. I will continuously work on building my profile accordingly for research. And if I can jump directly from an SDE role to a research role, then I think that would be the best way to go about it. At this point in time, I can directly get that SDE ML role via a team switch so it doesn't make sense to go for MS and do the same job 2 years later.
Other than that, I'm thinking of taking up a PhD or a part-time PhD- where you can continue with your job and at the same time take-up a PhD. I have come to realize that ML research or research roles are only given out to PhD candidates. So, if I want to go into pure research, I would rather prefer to do a PhD. I'm just exploring my options right now, but pretty confused, like everyone else. But I will surely like to stay in the corporate realm.
Q. Was getting a high CGPA one of your goals? How did you manage to achieve it?
A. Getting a high CGPA was never really my aim. After joining college, if you are only studying all day for a high CGPA, then you miss out on all the college activities and other things apart from studies. I just wanted to keep a decent CGPA which will help me clear cutoffs for all company interviews. My CGPA currently is 8.41, which I think is pretty decent but not very difficult to achieve. Just make sure you go through previous year papers and tutorials one week before midsem/compre. Also, "midsem lite compre phodenge" is the worst concept to follow- saying this after trying it out and failing miserably :) It's easy to score in midsem and more difficult to score in compre if your concepts till midsem are not clear.
Q. What role does CG play in internship applications?
A. It does not matter for GSoC applications. I applied for Microsoft Research Lab and Adobe Research which were both off-campus and CG did not matter in both places. Next was the Apple PS-II in that case, it did matter to some extent to clear the cutoff. A lot of people who had CG more than 8.2 - 8.3 got shortlisted at least for the interview stage. 8+ is a decent CGPA to clear cutoffs. There wasn’t any specific preference given to someone who has a 9.5 CGPA over someone who has 8.5 in terms of getting internship opportunities. In short, it helps only in shortlisting people. Your resume also isn't that important "after" you're shortlisted. Once you've been shortlisted for an interview, then it all depends on how your interview goes.
Q. How do you think one should compensate for low CGPA?
A. That's a good question. I faced that situation before because my first year CGPA was decent- It was 8.6. And in my second year, I got a little bit too involved with friends and relaxing, so my CG at the end of the second year was 7.71. I was really worried - So I started working on projects and started applying to places and building a good profile so that CGPA would not pull me down anywhere. If you build a good profile, your CGPA does not matter as much. I did work on my CGPA later in my third and fourth years. I got it up to 8.41 right now, but again, that was secondary, I was trying to build my profile because I think that's the only way you can compensate for low CG.
Q. What would you say that you did right in college? And what are the things that you think you could have done better? How did you make the best use of the resources that our college gave?
A. I am not sure what I could’ve done better. I think I could have just managed to maintain my CGPA. In my second year, I did waste a lot of time. But again, I feel that was very important because you need to have a life other than just working and just pursuing academics. So again, I don't regret that. Because things are linked. You see, I had a low CGPA by the end of my second year, so I've worked hard to compensate for that, as a result I ended up building a good profile. Somehow I got lucky in some places.
I think we are very privileged to have no attendance policy, zero attendance policy, as we call it. If you look at other colleges, they are so busy with the coursework and just attending classes that they don't have any time left for them to participate in other stuff. But I think I used the academic flexibility the best. I did not attend classes, I only used to binge-watch lectures two or three weeks before midsems and compre. But I utilized that time to work on projects, internships, etc. I enjoyed my college life a lot during my first two years here.
Regarding best use of college resources, I think you should get involved in formal projects or informal projects with professors, you will get the experience of looking at how research works in India labs, and you should also get involved with professors abroad. So I did not get the chance to work with professors abroad. But I think there's a huge difference when it comes to research in India and research abroad. So I would say it's very important to experience that at least once. And other than that, just to talk to professors, they have a lot of ideas. Even if you don't attend classes, I think having a personal connection with professors really helps.
Q. Coming to the departments and clubs side of things, which clubs/departments were you part of? How did they help you shape your career?
A. In my first year, I was part of DoSM. I wanted to try out the marketing side. Because I was confused if I should go into computer science, try consulting or marketing, so I thought it would be a very good department to be part of. I did not enjoy it very much, however, so I decided to leave. I was also a part of Shades. Being in Shades helped me in ways I can't really put into words. It did not help me in my career directly, but whenever I wanted a break, I used art as an escape. I was in Wall Street for two years which was a good experience. Like I mentioned before, I was really confused about pursuing consulting and finance. Whenever you're in a club, you're with like-minded people and it is amazing to have discussions with them. Eventually I turned to computer science and I did not get a chance of doing both. I had to let go of one to focus on the other.
Next, in my third year, we started the ACM BPHC chapter. We were planning to make special interest groups so that we could continue with research. But in my tenure as Chair, we were just getting established. I gained the experience of setting things up from scratch, which I think was a very good experience. You have to communicate and lead a team, and the experience of communicating with the faculty in charge and then with your team organizing events is incredible. It was an online semester and the online experience was different from the offline experience. Through ACM I also made a lot of connections.
Q. It seems like you were involved in a lot of clubs in addition to your projects, internships, TAship and academics. How did you manage your time between all this?
A. You can’t do everything at once. Whenever I was working on one thing, I had to let go of other things. It may look like I was working on a lot of things at once, but that was not the case. There was a period when I would focus on one thing, and the rest would take a backseat. Managing your time is not that difficult as long as you know what you're doing and your intentions are set. Don't try to do everything -this will leave you with very little time, and you must focus on one thing at a time and let the others be your second priority.
Q. If you had to give advice to students year-wise, what advice would you give to them? Do you have any particular advice for dualites to help manage their extra burden in the third year?
A. For the first yearites, I would highly recommend them to finish off their Humanities electives. I was not aware that we could do this, but BITS is very flexible academically, so I would suggest that you make the most of this and finish off HuEls when you have less burden. I regret having not done that as a result, I had a lot of courses to finish in my third year. Academic guidelines change every year-so make sure you talk to AUGSD and find out. Other than that, I would say explore everything. You can only become more focused after you know what you want. I was a part of athletics and TedX as well, but I don’t count them as they weren’t something I ended up pursuing or making serious contributions to. That’s why I would suggest you go to every workshop and find out for yourself what you really enjoy. There are plenty of options to choose from, and you need to know what it is that you want to choose.
In your first year as a dualite, you end up studying a lot since you don’t have your dual degree finalized yet. So in the second year, you become more relaxed, especially if you end up getting CS. Finish off as many DELs as you can in your second year, as you will not have time in your third year (specifically for dualites). I was actually able to finish off my CS DELs even before I started with my CDCs. So if you're the kind of person who is interested in their BE degree, I would advise you to go ahead with that if you can manage it. CS DELs especially take up a lot of your time since they involve extensive assignments, so it is better to get them done as soon as you can. Other than that, please enjoy your second year! You will not find time later on since you'll be preparing for SI drive and placements, so you'll have a lot on your plate.
For single-degree students, the third year is pretty relaxed when compared to dualites.
I was able to finish a majority of my courses within three and a half years. When you come to your fourth year as a dualite, and you have single-degree friends, you end up enjoying with them and messing up your CGPA. It will be their “psenti-sem” but not yours. That’s why it is better to finish off your courses beforehand, so you have some time to enjoy with your friends in the fourth year.
You can even shift your CDC’s around. I was able to do Digital Design (to be done in 3-1) in 2-1. That’s how I ended up having a less hectic 4-1.
Q. Do you have any final thoughts or advice you’d like to give to your juniors?
A. I get this question a lot from juniors, and it is “How to prepare for placements?”. I didn't quite get a chance to prepare for placements extensively. Whenever there was an interview for a thesis or SI, I’d spend 3-4 days continuously studying the kind of questions that I could be asked. Look at solved examples instead of just reading the theory. That way, you’ll be able to understand how to approach a question and apply the same logic across other problems. I would also suggest that you go through the DSA questions more than the theory part. If you code in Python, then this youtube channel: NeetCode might be a good way to start placement/SI prep.
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